simonf June 26, 2007 Report June 26, 2007 Följande information är endast fram googlad och klistrad av mig.Jag blev trött på att se information på flera sidor så jag satte ihop ett litet textstycke. //Mvh Simon´(text istället för länkar så att folk som söker i forumet får lite träffar)//////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////Hur du identifierar din windsor / cleveland 351Information från: www.Ghettonet.org/351 Cleveland InfoHere's a crapload of information about the Cleveland motor that I've found all over the net, If you findy anything thats incorrect let me know and I'll make the appropriate changes. The 351C ran from 70-74 it came in passenger cars and performance cars only no trucks, it came in a 2v and a 4v version, the heads were completely diffrent (2v 2.05/1.60 valves) (4v 2.19/1.72) the 4v heads were closed chamber for the first 2 years of production. the boss motor used 4 bolt mains and a solid lift cam. The 351C shares the same bellhousing as a small block ford. they are known for there high revs, but have oiling sytem problems. the distributor and rocker arms interchange with the 429/460 engines. As far as I know nothing will directly bolt on to a windsor off them. Like everyone says theres not much aftermarket for them compared to the windsor, however they still have alot of potential. For all out racing, the cleveland is superior in many ways. The block, even, the two bolt version has much thicker main webbing than a windsor. If your going to go with a carb, there are many more intakes available for a cleveland than a windsor. Also, as everyone knows, the cleveland heads have much better flow, especially the 4-barrel ones. You can stroke a cleveland to a 408 cid but the more popular stroker is to buy the 393 crank, you can get it to fit a cleveland as well. Or if you have a 393 crank for a 351W already, all you have to do it turn it down to the 351C main journal size and it will fit also. If you are thinking of installing a 351C in a mustang and haven't already bought a bunch of 351W stuff already, you will be money ahead install the 351C. It will cost you more to start with, mainly due having to buy a special oil pan and headers but its worth the extra cost over time. Clevelands were built for one thing and one thing only.....to spank SBC ass in NASCAR! Given another several years of development they would have easily done so. The 4V heads were way ahead of their time and flowed impressive numbers even by todays standards. They get a bad rap from people because they really weren't good performers on the street......and rightly so. Imagine putting a set of heads that flow over 330CFM on a carbureted 351 inch motor and then running it around town with a 3000 stall!! You need to spin them to make real power and that's what they were designed to do. THE HEAD BOLT PATTERN IS THE SAME AS A WINDSOR, IT'S THE COOLANT FLOW THAT IS DIFFERNT THROUGH THEM. It is a fairly straightforward conversion that any machine shop can do. If you have a 4 bolt block, the stock cranks are supposedly good to 10,000RPM if they are worked by a credible crank grinder.....at least that's what i've read about the old Pro Stocker racers that used to destroke them to 330 something inches and wind the living crap out of them! As mentioned, the oiling system is not very good but can be fixed to cure the problem. People say that it is cheaper to build Windsor stuff.....but an SVO block is over $3000 after machining and a good crank is $1000. In comparison, you can get a standard 4 bolt Cleveland block, crank, and rods for $400 and finish the rest of the motor with the $3600 you save. Basically, you can build a 600HP Cleveland for around $5000 because the stock stuff will handle that level easily. I have a standard bore 4 bolt block, crank, and rods for sale now if anyone is interest. Why don't i run them you ask? 1. They don't allow it in the NMRA classes. 2. I feel safer with more modern part designs at over 1300 horsepower. However, a Cleveland can make one hell of an economical bracket race motor...... 69stang, I checked again on stroking a 351C to a 393. You can use the 6.00" rods and a set of pistons for the 427 stroker 351W. All you need to do is specify you want the pistons with cleveland style valve reliefs. I know they make them because of friend of mine has a set the came out of a 427 "clevor" engine. So the question is, can I get about 400 horse out of the Cleveland with relatively little problem? You should be able to get 400 ponies out of a cleveland with nothing more than a decent intake, a 750-800 or so carb and a decent size cam (around .500-.550 lift maybe a little less and around 235-245 duration). 400hp should be no problem at all from a C. correction h code -2v Q code -cj m code -4v r code - boss and HO determine which block your looking at ,look for stamp under rear of right cylinder bank , the heads are not the only plus you can find one w/4 bolt main in 71'boss 72'HO,71'cj,and 72- 73 4v blocks , you need some more info ...for your own good then you can determine the price you are willing to pay ... hit me back if i can help you more. also some thing i left out if is (1971 block code) under rear of right cylinder bank 2 bolt main D0AE-(A,C,E,G,L) 4 bolt main D0AE-(B,D,F,H) IDENTIFYING 351 WINDSOR AND 351 CLEVELAND ENGINES We receive many phone calls from classic Mustang enthusiasts inquiring if the engine in their 1969 or 1970 Mustang or the 1969 or 1970 Mustang they are contemplating purchasing is a 351 V-8 Windsor or a 351 V-8 Cleveland. First of all, virtually all 1969 351 V-8 engines were Windsors and virtually all 1970 351 V-8 engines were Clevelands. There are a few exceptions. Over the years we have seen a few 1969 Mustangs with factory installed Cleveland engines. By checking the build dates of these Cleveland 1969?s we found that in every case these Mustangs were produced in the last week or two of 1969 production when perhaps the factory ran out of Windsor engines. Conversely, we have also seen very early production 1970 Mustangs equipped with 351 V-8 Windsor engines. Again, perhaps the producing factory was using up their supply of Windsor engines before beginning Cleveland engine production. In either case we have found these to be very rare occurrences. The 351 Windsor's radiator hose attaches to the radiator and connects directly to the front of the intake manifold via a water neck. Windsor 351 V-8 Engine 1. Valve cover is held in place by 6 bolts. 2. Spark plug socket is 13/16 inch size. 3. Distributor gear is 1 1/4 inch diameter. 4. Radiator hose connects to water neck on the front of the intake manifold. The 351 Cleveland's radiator hose attaches to the radiator and connects directly into the front of the engine block. It makes a 90° bend from the radiator to the engine block. Cleveland 351 V-8 Engine 1. Valve cover is held in place by 8 bolts. 2. Spark plug socket is 5/8 inch size. 3. Distributor gear is 1 1/2 inch diameter. 4. Radiator hose is essentially a 90 degree hose that connects directly to the top front of the engine block. Casting Numbers * 1969 351W engine block -- both 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines -- C8TE-6015-A * 1970 351W engine block -- both 2 barrel and 4 barrel engines -- C90E-6015-A or C90E-6015-B or D * 1969 351 V-8 Windsor 2 barrel heads -- C90E-6090-A, B, D, F, or J * 1969 351 V-8 Windsor 4 barrel heads -- C90E-6090-A, B, D, F, or J * 1970 351 V-8 Windsor 2 and 4 barrel heads -- D00E-6090-C or D0AE-6090-J * 1970 351C engine block -- Before 10/15/70 --D0AE-6015-A, C, E, G, J * 1970 351C engine block -- After 10/15/70 --D0AE-6015L * 1970 351 V-8 Cleveland 2 barrel heads -- D0AE-6090-E or D0AE-6090-J * 1970 351 V-8 Cleveland 4 barrel heads -- D0AE-G, M, N, or R We hope that this information is helpful to you. Other than Boss 351 Cleveland engines, 351 V-8 Windsors and 351 V-8 Clevelands were not serial numbered to the car. They were date coded at the time they were cast. The date codes and casting numbers are typically located behind the starter. If an engine?s date code precedes the build date of the Mustang by no more than three months, it is generally accepted that it could be the original engine. Again, we hope that you find this information helpful. K.A.R. Auto Group, Inc. The 351C uses the Small Block (289/302) bellhousing bolt pattern. All 351C blocks can be machined for 4 bolt mains. Cleveland family engines use a distributor that will physically interchange with those of the 429/460 big block. The engine in this car is a 351 Cleveland (engine code H) originally equipped with a 2V (2-barrel) carb. The cylinder heads on a Cleveland in 1970 came in two flavors-- the "2 barrel" heads had open combustion chambers and smaller valves and ports than the "4-barrel" heads. However, both have canted valves (like Chevy big-block), and even the 2V heads have pretty big ports. In 1970 the 351C-2V was factory rated at 250 HP. I removed the clunky solid fan from the water pump and installed an electric fan on the radiator. To make sure there was enough electrical power, I rebuilt the alternator with a high-output (90 amp) kit. 1970 Engine 351W/351C-2V 351C-4V 428 CJ** 428 CJ Ram Air** Engine Code H M Q R Horsepower@rpm 250@4600 300@5400 335@5200 335@5200 Torque@rpm 355@2600 380@3400 440@3400 440@3400 Bore x Stroke 4.000x3.500 4.000x3.500 4.130x3.984 4.130x3.984 Compression Ratio 9.5:1 11.0:1 10.6:1 10.6:1 ** SCJ (Super Cobra Jet) came with mandatory "Drag Pak" option Mandatory digits in VIN : 0x05x000000 Warranty Plate Body Code: 63C RPM AIR-GAP 351-C MANIFOLD Designed to improve performance on the street or racetrack, the RPM Air-Gap 351 Cleveland manifold features an open space that separates the runners from the hot engine oil resulting in a cooler, denser charge. The result is high performance street power from 1,500 to 6,500 RPM. The Edelbrock air-gap design utilizes the same race-winning technology that s been used on Edelbrock s Victor Series competition intakes for many years. The RPM Air-Gap manifold for 351 Cleveland engines is designed to complement Edelbrock s new 351C Performer RPM cylinder heads, and also works well with stock 2V cast iron Cleveland heads. RPM Air-Gap Manifold for 351 Cleveland Ford V8s............................................................................. ............#7564* RPM Air-Gap #7564 Today is:: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------Wednesday 06-20-2007 Build Tally Best Guess, see the Parts List 351C InfoEng:: 351CTrans:: C4Rear:: 8 InHeads:: 2V Buy Me Parts I'm planning on the Elenor paint color scheme, heres the codes for those interestedBody Pepper Gray Metallic Dupont Fleet 44490Stripes Black Metallic Dupont Fleet 44435Notes::--------------------------------------------------------------------------------The mustang is sitting idle in the garage at the moment. More to come soon! Mustang Links:: --------------------------------------------------------------------------------StangNet.com Summit Racing Timing How To FiringOrder Tuning Tips Hotrodders Knowledge Base only search Ghettonet/////////////////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////////////// Lite information om Aussie delar till cleveland.Information från: http://realbig.com/detomaso/1997-05/432.html> Hi All:> I confirm a more details about Austrailian Engine things. My Aussie block> is a two bolt main, so they must come in both varities.The big question is do the 2 bolt Aussie blocks have thick cylinder walls?> My Aussie 2V heads> are of the open chamber variety. Hopefully there does exist a 4V closed> chamber. 4V for bigger ports/stock valves and closed chamber for compression> and more piston choice.The 4V closed chamber is the early U.S. casting. What we want is a2V closed chamber. Similar compression and pre-ignition resistanceto the 4V closed chamber but with the higher velocity 2V port and valvesizes.> I did CC my heads with water and I got about 78mL. This is the same as one> of the open-chamber specs I saw for the American heads.Do you mean CC's (not ml's)? If so, that is the same as the U.S 2Vhead. I've attached a copy of a Cleveland head chart I've been workingon. Take a look and see if if I've got it right.> The date codes on my castings imply 1982, my car is an '83. The casting> number for the block is D2AE CA. I'm not sure about the C. I took some> digital picutres while assembling on Saturday, but the casting numbers on the> block came out too dark. The date code casting underneath is something like> ?C2. I will have to look when I get home.>> I need to keep on this list, I know that I've forgotten a few things since I> started writing this respone on Friday.Thanks for sharing the info,Dan JonesCleveland Head FYI------------------Production cast iron Cleveland style heads have several different combustionchamber, valve, and port sizes. Closed chamber refers to the smaller volumeheads and the 4V refers to the heads with larger ports and valves thatoriginally came on cars with 4V carbs. There are also aftermarket SVOaluminum heads (C302, Yates) which bolt onto Cleveland blocks but havenon-stock intake and exhaust port locations, requiring special manifolds.Chamber Int/Exh Intake Exhaust Notes CastingVolume Valve Dia Port Port NumbersCC's inches inches inchesBoss 302W1969 61.3-64.3 2.23/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,81970 57.0-60.0 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,3,8Boss 351C1971 66.1 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,8 D1ZE-B351C 4V70-71 62.8 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,8 DOAE-H, R71 CJ 75.4 2.19/1.17 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,9 D1ZE-DA72 HO 75.4 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 2,9,10 D2ZE-A72-74 76.2 2.19/1.71 1.75x2.50 1.74x2.00 1,4,9 D1ZE-GA351C 2V70-74 US 76.2 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,5 DOAE-E,JDOAZ-A,B,DD1ZE-CBD1AE351M/40075-82 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D5AE-AAD5AZ71-74 78.4 2.04/1.65 1.40x2.02 1.38x1.84 1,7 D1AE-AD3AE-G2BAussie 2V 62.0 2.04/1.65 6,8Aussie 2V 78 2.04/1.65 9,11Notes:1. non-adjustable, cap screw with 5/16 inch bolt, pedestal rockers,non-hardened pushrods, multi-groove valves2. adjustable, 7/16 inch screw-in studs, guideplates, hardened pushrods,single groove valves3. has intake manifold water thermostat passages to match 302W block4. open-type combustion chamber and induction hardened exhaust valveseats, otherwise same as early 4V5. nearly identical to 351M/400 heads, oval exhaust ports6. used on Australian 302C and 351C, fits US 2V intake and exhaustmanifolds, rumoured to have a slightly larger (10%) intake port,combustion chamber shape may be different that U.S. 4V closedchamber so pop-up pistons meant for 4V heads may not fit withclearancing7. may have an additional EGR passage, otherwise nearly identical toUS 351C 2V, oval exhaust ports8. closed chamber9. open chamber10. open-type combustion chambers otherwise same as 71 Boss 35111. used on later Pantera 351C's which were sourced from Australia(probably originally meant for Australian truck applications),heads appear to be the same as U.S. 2V open chamber items.Miscellaneous:There are two major differences between the open chamber 2V and closedchamber 4V heads. First is the ports. The 4V heads have good intakeports and horrible exhaust ports. The 2V intakes flow almost as much,with considerably higher velocity, and have much better exhausts. Theflow balance across the ports dramatically affects the engine's camshaftrequirements.The second difference is the combustion chamber shape. The open chamberhead burns well, has low emissions, and is reasonably resistant todetonation at low (under 10:1) compression ratios. The closed chamber(also known as quench chambers) heads are more sensitive to octane, butthe shorter flame path helps reduce required spark lead and makes morepower. The fuel and timing requirements for open and closed chamberheads are much different. David Vizard claims open chamber heads respondwell to multiple spark ignitions (e.g. MSD 6), requiring less ignitionlead.From one of the Fordnatics members (Chip ???):"Well, from what I have measured on a flow bench, which seems tobe a little conservative to Superflows, the intake on reworked Cleveland2V flows anywhere from 225cfm to 250cfm peak. The 250 number requires alot of rework and the 225cfm number is a fair amount of work. Theexhaust flows anywhere from 175cfm to 200cfm under the same conditions.These numbers reflect 28 inches of water. The interesting characteristicof these heads is that the intake flow generally peaks at around 0.45 inof lift, or should I say that it only increases about 5 to 10 cfmthereafter. The intake does flow more with a larger intake valve, thatis, it still starts to flatten at 0.45 in lift but it will pick up somemore flow. In my opinion the 351C 2V head has the best exhaust/intakeflow ratio of any small block Ford head. BTW, it also flows about thesame as the 351C 4V exhaust. The intake is totally different story."And from another post (Chip again?):"It is interesting to note that a Cleveland 2 barrel will flow about(intake) 203cfm at 0.400, exhaust 145, but will not flow much moreunless a bigger intake valve is installed. Exhaust valve size will notimprove the flow any. A cleveland 4 barrel will flow (intake) 313 at0.600 and the exhaust is the sameas the cleveland 2 barrel which willflow 180 at that lift. These are pocket ported cylinder heads."And another:"hi Dan,here are the flow numbers of the Cleveland 2Vs heads i had.lift intake exhaust (exhaust/intake).100 3 63 86%.150 115 79 69.200 153 95 62.250 189 113 60.300 212 128 60.350 218 142 65.400 218 151 69.450 218 161 74.500 218 170 78.550 219 176 80.600 219 183 84.650 219 186 85reading @ 28" of merci didn't have the intake/exhaust port amounts, chamber amounts, etc since igave the paper work to the guy i sold the heads to.hope this helps ya'dan wiltrakis"Service replacement specifications allow for a 3 cc variance in chambervolume.Cleveland style heads can be bolted to Windsor blocks but require waterpassage modificatons and special aftermarket (B&A) intake manifolds.Also required are compatible pistons, pushrods, head bolts, etc.Later heads have hardened exhaust valve seats.Some 351M/400 heads have a bump in the exhaust port that restrictsflow. Unfortuantely, water flows through the bump so it can not beground out.Swapping heads among the 335 series engines will lead to the followingcompression ratio changes:Volume 351C-2V 351C-4V 351-CJ 351C-4V 351C 351C 351M 400CC's 70-74 70-71 71 72-74 71 Boss 72 HO 75-80 71 72-8076.2 9.5 9.4 8.9 8.9 10.3 9.1 8.1 9.2 8.662.8 9.9??? 11.0 10.3 10.3 12.3 10.6 9.2 10.4 9.675.4 9.6 9.5 9.0 9.0 10.4 9.2 8.2 9.2 8.678.4 9.3 9.2 8.7 8.7 10.5 8.9 8.0 9.0 8.466.1 10.6 10.6 9.9 9.9 11.7 10.2 9.0 10.0 9.3these don't quite check...Info sources:- How to Rebuild Your 351C/351M/400 and 429/460 Ford (HP Books)- Ford Performance by Pat Ganahl- Ford High Performance (the 1986 and 1987 SVO Motorsport catalogs thatcame with tech articles)- Ford Off Highway Parts and Modification Manual- Musclecar and Hi-Po Engines: Ford 351C and Boss 351 (Brooklands Books)This is a compilation of 1970's Hot Rod magazine articles.- "Leave It To Clevor", Mustang and Fords, January 1993- "Making a Head Call", Mustang Illustrated, April 1991- Dave Williams- Paul Timko/////////////////////////////////// ///////////////////////////////////Detta kanske kan intressera någon...http://www.hotrodders.com/forum/clevela ... 50702.htmlQ: Has anybody come across a problem of 2v heads cracking in the intake ports?david.g Registered UserA:The only cracking I have ever come across with a cleveland, either 2 or 4 v was in the bridge between the valve seats, most prevailant with the 4v head. The main reason for the cracking is because of steam spikes in the cooling system. Because the water flows from the head back into the block before going to the radiator, they clevelands had a tendency to trap steam bubbles, if you want to call them that, above the combustion chamber, predominately to the exhaust side. the best cure for this it to drill and thread the front of the heads, and install 1 1/4 inch pipe nipples or brass fittings of the same size, then run dual hoses to your radiator or fabricate a collection tank between and above the two nipples, and put a radiator cap on it with a bleed line to allow the steam to blow off. When I ran a cleveland on dirt track I also ran a jumper line across the back of the heads in the same manner and connected them to a heater core, which was elevated above the heads. Between the two, you will definately eliminate the steam spikes, and that will at least reduce if not eliminate the chances of cracking the heads. An alternative is to scrap the guts out of your thermostat. What ever you do, dont remove the frost plug looking goodie thats just below the thermostat housing in the block. That is the devider between your water going in and water going out. Remove that plug and you wont have any water circulation.Max Keith Member Citera
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